Curse

Badgerbratt · Nov 17, 2005, 03:45 AM // 03:45

I dunno if this conversation is over or not, but i want to say that all builds are great in their own way, and just because you may not be able to work it does not mean that others cant. Also, Cwz should be respected as all other guilds, still i mean if other guilds posted their builds they wouldnt want comments as "its so nooby" or shaz like that. Call me a noob as you want but i think everyone have their rights :/

And iway is good for fame farming, as most people with no rank are considered noobs. Ever thought about that? (I'm one of them :/)

Tarot Ribos · Nov 18, 2005, 02:46 AM // 02:46

I'd honestly respect cwz a lot more if they actually made sense with their posts. All I've seen is a bunch of incoherent ramblings about how good IWAY is... without any real evidence.

I don't like IWAY for this sole reason: It has too many glaring weaknesses. As previously mentioned, it doesn't have an answer to hexes. Or, 90% of the time, Blind.

Empathy + Spiteful Spirit = One Screwed IWAY warrior.

Backfire = Screwed Necro.

Congratulations, a single Me/N used less than half his skill bar to screw over 1/4 of your team. Best of all, those skills aren't even specifically anti-IWAY... they work against other teams, too!

And there's my beef with IWAY. It's so easy to counter. All it requires is a less-than-totally-conventional thought process to counter.

Badgerbratt · Nov 18, 2005, 03:00 AM // 03:00

But then the problem is that sometimes that the team with those spells will need other proffesions, not only n/Me. Teams want to counter all professions, not just IWAY soz :P

TadaceAce · Nov 19, 2005, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by warriorsmiley

im flattered someone would go thru the trouble of copy and pasting from our guild forum the way we run iway. *sigh* im tired of hearing there are so many ways to counter that group would do nothing against an none iway team we never held the hall we held the hall for like an hour at one point with a healer henchie and a mage henchie FTW knocking down lara valor/prp teams back down to the unworthy more then 1 time if you can name a top holding guild/group chances are we beat them on the way to halls and in halls WN sux as a guild we are like 10-0 vs them we run iway when there is nothing else to do and we are bored and want to get a quick tombs group going on like every build it has it weakness its just we have a high win to loss ratio on a normal day we get around 100 fame on a good day 200++ flame iway all you want cuz at the end of the its still gonna be around and most hate iway becuz they loss to it all the time a lost is a lost take and it dont complain it

... yeah you hold halls alright, without a single person (oh wait my bad, a heal hench) to heal the hero... Too bad the hero dies with 9:50 remaining, somebody is bound to cap between one of the 2 minute intervals while your hero just dies repeatedly.

heist23 · Nov 19, 2005, 03:28 AM // 03:28

IWAY kills the unprepared. it's that simple.

it also takes less skill than most other builds, so other people use that against pro-IWAY players.

IWAY is IWAY. it'll be around for...awhile, to say the least.

JR · Nov 19, 2005, 12:56 PM // 12:56

If I lose to IWAY in tombs it's a dissapointment to me. Same with any other FoTM; ranger spike, obs flame spike etc.

Because IWAY is a bad build? No. IWAY is a very effective build, it does what it was designed to do, it rolls newbies. So why is it easy to counter? Because from the moment you see you are facing a bunch of W/R and a couple of necros, you know exactly what you are facing and what tactic to use. It's much harder to understand and adapt to other builds.

Same goes for the other FoTM builds, I could probobly say what they were running skill for skill. So if I get beaten by them I haven't just been beaten, I have been beaten by a team against which I had a clear advantage. I don't run set builds again and again, apart from occasionally trappers just for the hell of it. Everytime I go into tombs it's pretty much allways with a new build, and I allways try and make it original and unpredicatble.

megaforcetkd · Nov 19, 2005, 12:58 PM // 12:58

1 question : WHAT IS IWAY xD. i meanwhat does it stand for and whats the point of the build? And yes, ive searched.

JR · Nov 19, 2005, 01:01 PM // 13:01

It's a warrior heavy build based around the shout, "I Will Avenge You!", which gives you +health regen and +attack speed when you have dead allies around you. As such the IWAY warriors all bring pets, which are counted as allies. They let the pets die, and then hit IWAY turning themselves into meat mincing machines.

Read the build on the first page, might help you understand it a little better.

Sephir Demange · Nov 21, 2005, 04:08 AM // 04:08

I seriously don't believe that this page is still getting attention. IWAY can be run quite effectively, but then, any build can be. It does not really matter. A build is a build. I am truly sorry I ever ran it to be honest. Not because of the fact that it is ineffective, simply that it is boring, repetative, and encourages others to talk down to you. I watched 5 or 6 players from CWz completely burn themselves out on IWAY; played solidly for 2 weeks all day, and then quit Guild Wars completely. And all that was accomplished for the guild? We lost a leader, 3 officers, and tracked our name through the mud. After all that happened, I went back to what I was doing for months before I ever saw an IWAY: Healing. I was turned down from over half the groups I tried to get into because I was from CWz. I spent more time working my name back up in tombs then I EVER spent running IWAY. So don't run IWAY, it's just not worth it.

JR · Nov 21, 2005, 04:27 AM // 04:27

You mean there are snobs in tombs? Dear god no!

glenn_rolfe · Nov 21, 2005, 07:22 AM // 07:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Signet of Humility

LoL
are u serious CWz ?
lmao they suck and so as their build
nuff said..
why the hell whould u run iway as a guild build
*no offense Warrior Nation *
WN atleast runs it better lmao CWz

I'm really disappointed in seeing Warrior Nation running IWAY, unless they are doing it just for a few giggles or trying to develop the concept into a holding capable build.
But if they are doing just to get some fame under their names, I'm not happy.

Wasteland Squidget · Nov 21, 2005, 08:23 AM // 08:23

We fought CwZ tonight, running a psuedo-IWAY that had a Monk. We were a bit suprised when the guys we were targeting got a heal, and while I don't remember the fight too clearly I think we may have had one go down.

No trash talking was present and it was generally a good fight. I've got no problems with these guys, though I think they've gone down a poor path restricting their guild to any single build - good or bad.

Navaros · Nov 21, 2005, 09:11 AM // 09:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenn_rolfe

What ppl (myself that is) hate about IWAY is that is being run only to farm fame. There is no hope of holding HoH. So when you start trying to make a strong team you waste hours on R6+ idiots that farmed all their fame from IWAY.

You know what's funny, is that I've always seen people talk on these boards about people fame farming with IWAY, but I've never actually seen it happen in Tombs. Because most people who run IWAY are too stupid to try to fame farm with it, so they instead waste time playing it normally as if it's a balanced build.

Recently I decided to start my own fame farming system with IWAY. I'm rank 8 already, so it's not like I "need" to or anything.

The reason I decided to do that is because I want a tiger. Now, to get a tiger I can play in my expert Guild (which I do), or R6+ groups whenever I want. Neither of them fully satisfies my fame needs.

Why? My Guild likes to try "test builds" that net very little fame. And that eat into the few hours of the day during which all the best players are online to play Guild Wars. When they are done with unsuccessful test builds, they run a real, winning build. But during that real build, they are quite content to skip any/all map that they happen to skip, which also eats into my fame progression by forcing me to miss out on deserved fame from skipped maps. Tonight I won HoH and held HoH for one round, and I got only about 25 fame in total from that whole run. Since so much time was spent on test builds that get almost no fame, there wasn't time for another run after that.

It's the same way with R6+ pugs - they take forever to assemble, and often they are running "test" builds that lose. Or "holding builds" which are usually just codenames for "losing builds that will die a few rounds into Tombs." Often with very little fame payoff after all that waiting. Plus they are even worse because you will likely get one or two weak links who fubar the success of the team. After which they lose a few rounds in and disband. Often wasting hours of preparation just for 4 or 5 fame points.

Now...contrast this with IWAY. I can make an IWAY pug in 15 minutes, and farm 6 fame in every 8 - 10 minutes.

My goal is a tiger. Now which is the smarter way to do it? Obviously, IWAY is the much more consistent and faster way to get guaranteed fame.

As for IWAY taking no skill to use; well if that's true, then it's really sad that my IWAY pugs have beaten a whole whackload of teams that hold Halls all the time, like Power of my Rangers (the real one), and VIBE Guild and countless more Guilds ranked under 100.

IWAY takes skill in that without good calling, it's not nearly as effective as it is with good calling. And you have to be alert about which targets to take out first because if you screw up and take too long downing targets, your team is toast. You have to survey the battlefield and quickly employ the best strategy to take out the enemy at hand (to EOE or not to EOE etc.) because if you make a wrong move, there are no monks to save you and give you time to come correct a second time.

megaforcetkd · Nov 21, 2005, 02:07 PM // 14:07

for the HoH battles, if i use a PvP char i cannot get a pet, correct?

Akathrielah · Nov 21, 2005, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

As for IWAY taking no skill to use; well if that's true, then it's really sad that my IWAY pugs have beaten a whole whackload of teams that hold Halls all the time, like Power of my Rangers (the real one), and VIBE Guild and countless more Guilds ranked under 100.

Not sure if I've encountered your particular IWAY groups yet, but most of the groups I've been in usually have zero trouble defeating IWAY, that counts for both CWz and WN. And defeating a sub 100 guild in tombs counts for very little considering the apathetic attitude many of them have towards tombs. Defeating them in GvG would be a far more noteworthy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

IWAY takes skill in that without good calling, it's not nearly as effective as it is with good calling. And you have to be alert about which targets to take out first because if you screw up and take too long downing targets, your team is toast. You have to survey the battlefield and quickly employ the best strategy to take out the enemy at hand (to EOE or not to EOE etc.) because if you make a wrong move, there are no monks to save you and give you time to come correct a second time.

All builds function better with good calling. All builds function better if you prioritize targets and attack targets of opportunity. All builds function better with good positioning and tactics. This doesn't mean anything.

Would an IWAY team benefit if its players were skilled and organized? Definately. Does IWAY require a lot less tactics and thought than most other builds? Most definately. Does this mean it is a bad build? Definately not. If anything it means it is an efficient one.

Sephir Demange · Nov 21, 2005, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

We fought CwZ tonight, running a psuedo-IWAY that had a Monk. We were a bit suprised when the guys we were targeting got a heal, and while I don't remember the fight too clearly I think we may have had one go down.

No trash talking was present and it was generally a good fight. I've got no problems with these guys, though I think they've gone down a poor path restricting their guild to any single build - good or bad.

Actually, the funny thing is that build you saw was nowhere near an IWAY ^_^. The pets served only as living bombs, we only used 2 W/R and the only necro on the team didn't even carry orders. Plus, it wasn't 1 monk. It was 3.
Another example of how bad IWAY can trash a guilds name is Warrior Nation. I am friends with quite a number of their officers and members, and guest GvG'ed with them from rank 100+ all the way up to 30. The thing is, only 2 or 3 of their members ever insisted on continuing to run IWAY; Warrior Nation was only ever testing IWAY out. And considering the fact that Prav has done that same thing, perhaps people can lay off with bashing WN in general. The negative stigma IWAY can lay on a player or a guild is, as I said before, NOT WORTH IT. Oh and as for the rank 8 player, do you really want to cross over into tiger-dom with IWAY? Start your own r6+ and use a build that you want.

fiery · Nov 21, 2005, 05:03 PM // 17:03

completly demolished trapper in IWAY.

just stating.. this ONE retarded IWAY group...was a total ass.. the leader..he wanted a 43 damage EOE.. but a guy got it to 38... he wanted to rezone just for that..funny thing was... everyone left.. after ghost team died.. got 10 morale.. and was me and 2 other guildies...guess wut henchies we got ^^.. 2 mage and 3 healer..was fun

PLUS even before we started.. he only wanted to farm the first 3 maps...and if we WON reaching the 4th map we would just leave.. we would rezone.. without even trying.. i thought that was just gay..

Navaros · Nov 21, 2005, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephir Demange

Start your own r6+ and use a build that you want.

That's a wonderful thought, but not the least but practical. Building a good Guild with lots of high-quality players is an extremely hard thing to do. And even with that in place, making builds and waiting for everyone to reroll etc. takes gargantuan amounts of time away from actual playing (fame gaining) time.

Why do something vastly less efficient and slower to get fame when there is a faster, less frustrating way in place to accomplish higher fame gain (IWAY)?

Sephir Demange · Nov 21, 2005, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Well, it can be quite practical, if done correctly. I personally, offered to play healer to any semi-competent group. Because of this, I slowly but surely built up quite a friend list of flexible, intelligent players. Very few of them ever felt like running the same build over and over, and yet all of them are quite capable of making any build work relatively well. I rarely have to go in a pick up group anymore because of these friends. And as for rerolling, and it being less efficient let me give you a quick example. The other day, my group got together and ran one build, got to halls with no skips then lost. We quickly changed to a different build, switched the monks if they were bored and went again. We got to halls and then won, held for another round, and then were ousted. We changed to a very very comic build that was meant only for laughs, and still won our way to the last relic run and lost. Moral of the story is, making contact with flexible, like-minded players is important. I'm not sure how often that happens while running IWAY. Oh and by the way, I'm not trying to put you OR the build IWAY down at all, I think that IWAY is very efficient as a build in that it is not complicated, and effective to a certain degree. I'm merely stressing the game OUTSIDE of the influence of IWAY.

glenn_rolfe · Nov 23, 2005, 02:30 AM // 02:30

yeah the thread started out as something about CWz IWAY build being so awesome.

Anyway, I guess what I personally hate about IWAY is not the build, but the fact that it seems to have dragged some of the worst people in the pvp world into it (probably they're all 14 year olds that think the words noob and pwned are funny). So this has a flow on effect into not liking the build.

A PUG I was in beat WN the other day on a relic run with a heavy condition build against their IWAY. It was actually a terrific game (IWAY can be tricky on relics), and I have to say WN said some nice things to us when the round was nearly over about the build, so I have to say that I really enjoyed it.

Usually when you beat IWAY it's a bit of a *yawn* because you plan for it, but if you lose, *ouch* it's rage quit time from a lot of people.